60 official days for protests against .MOBILE and .MOBILY : NOW'S THE TIME TO ACT!+7 months

[Mobidomainer]

Hello, guys and girls,

According to this article =

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ref=technology

We can read the following =

"The public now has 60 days to comment on the proposals. There's also a seven-month window for filing objections, including claims of trademark violation."

It doesn't say WHERE to COMMENT : does anybody know ?

ANYHOW : As for the promises several years ago about .MOBI : ICANN SHOULD in my view not accept
.MOBILE and .MOBILY (it's a bit more difficult for .phone or.app ; but protest against .MOBILE and .MOBILY HAS VERY MUCH FOUNDATION).

And if this doesn't succeed : At LEAST GIVE GRANDFATHERING PERIOD for .MOBI-OWNERS.

The article also gives the link to the whole list of proposed new TLD's.
List of proposals: http://bit.ly/L4MYed

Steven

[Andres Kello]

Steven, dotMobi/mTLD are the only ones who have standing to formally object:

Objection Ground	What it Means	Who has Standing	Dispute Resolution Service Provider
String Confusion	The applied for gTLD string is confusingly similar to an existing TLD or to another applied-for gTLD string. If two confusingly similar TLDs are delegated this could cause user confusion. See section 3.2.2.1 of the Applicant Guidebook.	An existing TLD operator or a gTLD applicant in the same application round. See section 3.2.2 of the Applicant Guidebook.	The International Centre for Dispute Resolution ICDR Fees[PDF, 18 KB] ICDR Rules[PDF, 18 KB] See section 3.2.3 of the Applicant Guidebook

Source: http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/program...ute-resolution

[Accent]

It is both - Public comment for 60 days, 7 months for the registry to file objections.


I think we would be more effective on this if we were able to coordinate our response (as stakeholders) with Afilias.

Right now we do not know if Afilias plans to swap .Mobi for some other extensions they want, or what. Does Afilias have real plans to develop .Mobi or would we be better off with a new owner?

I have to say that with two dozen extensions it seems unlikely that Afilias would develop a distinct strategy and staff for dotMobi, which is needed to take advantage of the unique Mobile web market.

[Andres Kello]

It is both - Public comment for 60 days, 7 months for the registry to file objections.

A public comment is not a formal objection. Only dotMobi/mTLD have standing to formally object as they are the only TLD with any similarity (e.g. string confusion) to .mobile (and .mobily, .moi, and .obi), not to mention the similarity of purpose in the specific case of .mobile.

If dotMobi/mTLD do not formally object, expect .mobile (and the others) to go live regardless of how many "public comments" they receive against.

[Accent]

I agree DotMobi has to lead here. They have to decide which strings to object to.

Stakeholder comments are supposed to be important in these decisions. I know, I know, nobody at ICANN gives a f--- but they always need cover. Dozens of stakeholder comments, which Mobility can provide, would be of value to show "public" support.

---------------------------
The dispute resolution graphic Andres posted shows a link to the fees for an objection. Depending on how long the panelist takes the cost is in the $10K range, plus attorneys. So that won't stop Afilias if they plan to object. The decision is made by International Centre for Dispute Resolution, a division of the American Arbitration Association. So ICANN supposedly is not involved.

---------------------------------
I didn't notice .moi and .obi.
.moi is Amazon. They have said that their TLDs will be for internal use. Of course they could change their mind but I doubt they want to be a registry. Moi is French for "me".
.Obi is a business name.

[gogo]

An existing TLD operator or a gTLD applicant in the same application round.
See section 3.2.2 of the Applicant Guidebook.
Source: http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/program...ute-resolution

So here an operator means a registry - the domain registrants have no rights?

So if you alone own the .mobi and .mobile registries, you can then launch .mobbi and .mobil (maybe only for oil?) and .mobl and .mbi and .moby and .mob and in the confusion that creates the existing registrants can just get stuffed. Or just give up and go to the new extension. No, to keep their link juice they'd have to keep the old domain as well as the new one. More $.

If you own .mobi and .mobile you can easily phase out .mobi by just charging $200 renewal fees.

I suspect Afilias left .mobi to die and it didn't, but they still see no reason to spend time or money on it. But if they filed an objection they could negotiate withdrawal of the objection in exchange for some benefit. I am not sure they think that way, though. Manipulative though Dotmobi were, Dotmobi probably would not be bright enough to do that. But let's see what happens.

[FilipinoFood.com]

..all the recent news mainstream about new extension "possibilities" is giving the public awareness of domaining (besides app) - I support any initiatives in this regard !

[Nash]

Hypothetically speaking.

1) the attempted new gtlds like .mobility .mobily etc.... are rejected by the ICANN board leaving .mobi as is now.
2) with 1000's of new tlds coming into play, searching will take a new path being driven by whatever tld is being searched such as .insurance for things insurance related .food for things food related, etc.... are the tld "categorizations" going to become more and more key in the new domain world?
3) will this become a great defining moment for .mobi as the sole avenue for everything mobile.
4) by default will this also force all the m. folks to switch to .mobi

Opinions please

[Accent]

I think Amazon wants Mobile. Not .Mobile, Mobile. No dot.

There is talk on the blogs that many of these extensions are being bought in preparation for acceptance of dotless domains - all you need is the extension. Type Mobile in the browser and you go to Amazon's Mobile land where everything is easy --- whatever they are selling. That could catch on with people, its a lot more intuitive typing Mobile rather than typing .Mobile.


It makes sense. It is a strong keyword, I expect more companies would have applied for .Mobile if they were not concerned about conflict with .Mobi. Indeed, looking only at the extension, which of the new TLDs are better than Mobile/Mobi? Shop, probably, not many more.

The Arbitration seems to be done by a neutral party, not by ICANN. So if there is confusion, and it sure looks like there is, then .Mobi may win. I imagine Amazon would then try to find some way to get Afilias's permission. I doubt they want to run a public registry, and I expect they do not want confusion either.

I am getting more convinced that big changes are coming for .Mobi. Good or bad - from here you can't tell, it could be either. But Amazon has changed the whole game.

------------------

Afilias is circulating some artwork by their staff - a keyboard where all the keys are multi-national company logos. Afilias understands dotless.

[youmo]

Just guessing, but if Amazon wants .mobile, that would possibly be part of their efforts to establish an ecosystem of apps for their kindle devices. Owning .mobile might potentially aid them in positioning the kindle as a central platform in the mobile space. I can't project how this would play out, but could be a little advantage for them...?

Amazon has deep pockets, they could definitely cut a deal with Affilias, if Affilias were to block their bid. Affilias gets a cash payment and the contract to run .mobile. If that happens though, i think Affilias could be fair game for legal action from .mobi domain investors.

Affilias is also bidding for .APP. App developers could have been a potential market for .mobi domains, alas Dotmobi never bothered to make any effort in that direction so that opportunity was/is seemingly lost. Now it looks like Affilias plans to go after this market, which again is moderately against .mobi's interests. I would be curious to understand the decision process of why Affilias wants .APP. If there was a realization that app developers are a good potential market for domains? Why then don't they instead focus their efforts on promoting .mobi to these end-users? The $200,000 TLD application fee could have made a nice marketing budget.

There don't seem to be many ways that .mobi comes out a winner here.

[gogo]

There don't seem to be many ways that .mobi comes out a winner here.

Unless in fact Afilias have already cut a deal with Amazon, and anyone else, where Afilias do not apply for .mobile and do not object to application(s) for mobile, in exchange for something - but what?

The mystery to me is why are there still 1m registrations in .mobi, and how many of those are in use, and what % serve mobile content. Mobi may actually be a user-friendly domainer-free and aftermarket-free extension at this point, and an uncontroversial renewals cash cow for Afilias - it really is hard to know what to think.

But when people, as they do, type a domain into Google instead of the address bar, often enough something.mobile will look like a typo of .mobi. Example: dating.mobl dating.moil dating.mobie dating.mbile

[Accent]

There is another ground for objection to a new TLD:

Community

There is substantial opposition to the gTLD application from a significant portion of the community that the gTLD string is targeting.See section 3.2.2.4 of the Applicant Guidebook.

An established institution associated with a clearly defined community.See section 3.2.2 of the Applicant Guidebook.

The International Center of Expertise of the International Chamber of CommerceICC Fees[PDF, 117 KB]ICC Practice Note[PDF, 78 KB]See section 3.2.3 of the Applicant Guidebook

The Mobility Forum could qualify as a "An established institution associated with a clearly defined community." A good attorney would have to establish standing, that seems possible.

It looks like this would cost around $75,000 if it would go all the way, but the case mostly rides on standing --- if Mobi domain owners - or the subset of premium domain buyers - are a community under the rule then the community dies if .mobile happens. Proving a substantial portion of .Mobi domain owners object to .mobile should be pretty easy, self evident, almost.

It costs 5000 Euros to file an objection. With an objection filed ---any objection --- a process starts that will tie up the extension for about a year. Amazon will want to clear title before that.


That is a lot of money, but if the objection holds then Amazon has no choice but to deal with those who objected if they want .Mobile. A real seat at a really big table.


Source:
http://www.thedomains.com/2012/06/18...heap/#comments

[Andres Kello]

There is another ground for objection to a new TLD:



The Mobility Forum could qualify as a "An established institution associated with a clearly defined community." especially since this is pretty clearly a threat to the existence of .Mobi Names. We would need a good attorney, who would have to establish our standing, that seems possible.

I'm not sure what you've seen here in the past year or so, but Mobility is no longer "established" and no longer resembles any kind of "institution". Furthermore, there isn't much of a "community" left, and what is left of it is completely fragmented and far from "clearly defined" and is today made up mostly of spammers.

So I don't see how Mobility has any real ground for objection today under those rules, but if you wish to pursue that path, feel free to get organized here and represent the "community" as you wish. I, however, will no longer be getting involved with any .mobi matters. That ship has long sunk in treacherous waters and I've already diversified far away from its domaining aspect. I have absolutely no misgivings as I could not have possibly tried any harder to save this extension every step of the way or to diversify the focus of this forum beyond a dying extension, but you can't revive a dead horse, you can only keep beating it.

[Accent]

Andres, you have done more than any four others here, I respect your decision.

I do not believe either .Mobi nor this forum is dead. Gravely ill, yes. I see no reason to quit before the game is over.

Mobility is still the clearinghouse for .Mobi owners, far more than any other venue. I think a good attorney can make a good case for standing for some group around this forum, perhaps add Namepros' Mobi section also. ICANN rules assume there is some association that best represents each particular group. What other group represents .Mobi domain owners?


Anyway, it is something to think about.

[gogo]

That is a lot of money, but if the objection holds then Amazon has no choice but to deal with those who objected if they want .Mobile. A real seat at a really big table.

Looks like behind the scenes horse trading has begun

http://domainnamewire.com/2012/06/18...gue-next-week/
Quote from domain name wire

I talked to Top Level Domain Holdings (TLDH) Chairman Peter Dengate Thrush about 15 minutes after ICANN’s “big reveal” news conference ended last week. He told me he had already received an email from another applicant for a TLD that TLDH had applied for, saying basically “let’s talk”.
And that’s a lot of the talking that will be going on at next week’s ICANN meeting in Prague. Competitors who applied for identical or similar strings will hold backroom meetings to try to hash out deals in an effort to avoid a costly auction.
There will also be a lot of bluffing going on in this high stakes game of poker.
Should you take your application off the table now and get most of your money back from ICANN in return for a payoff or a cut of the action? Or should you tell the other party you’re willing to spend millions in an auction for the domain to try to up the stakes?

If an objection costs so little, it would make sense for Afilias to bargain by filing just an objection, instead of expensively applying to get .mobile in the first place.

Mobi is so inactive I can't see it suffering if someone else gets .mobile - but it really would be nice if .mobi owners got given the corresponding names in .mobile.

[Accent]

Money is not needed to stop Amazon?'

...
French international law expert Alain Pellet has been appointed Independent Objector for the first round of ICANN’s new generic top-level domain program.
...With an expected 2,000-plus new gTLD applications, Pellet will command a budget of around $25 million, funded by application fees, over the three years the first round is expected to take.
Even with so many applications, I’m struggling to imagine scenarios in which so much money would be required.
The IO’s job is to object to new gTLD applications “in the best interests of global internet users”.
Pellet’s team will be limited to the Community Objection and Limited Public Interest Objection mechanisms outlined in the program’s Applicant Guidebook.
The IO is there to object when opposition to a gTLD has been raised but no formal objection has been filed by, for example, an affected community.
That the IO exists is an excellent reason to file comments on applications you’re opposed to – if no complaints are received via the public comment process, Pellet will be unable to object.

Source:
http://domainincite.com/8948-icann-names-25m-gtld-objector

Mobi is so inactive I can't see it suffering if someone else gets .mobile

A .Mobile extension, without protection for existing .Mobi owners, removes any possibility of .Mobi recovering its credibility and provides a incentive for Amazon to do whatever it can to reduce the use of .Mobi. Also Afilias could make a deal with Amazon that benefits Afilais and harms .Mobi owners. I am not saying Afilias would sell us out, but a lot of CEOs would.

Indeed, I support working with Afilias to block .Mobile in return for a revival of .Mobi.

- but it really would be nice if .mobi owners got given the corresponding names in .mobile.

That is one way this could be to .Mobi domain owners benefit - existing Miobi owners get both for the price of one. But we will not get this or any other consideration without asking for it.

[gogo]

That is one way this could be to .Mobi domain owners benefit - existing Miobi owners get both for the price of one. But we will not get this or any other consideration without asking for it.

Has anyone contacted Afilias/Dotmobi about this?

If the owners of .mobi domains are uncertain and stop renewing them the registry and possibly registrars lose money - it is in their interest to manage the situation and dispel registrant fears.

[Mobidomainer]

I still have no answer WHERE I CAN OBJECT EXACTLY AGAINST .MOBILE and .MOBILY .
Can somebody give me THE LINK TO THE PLACE where we for 60 days give our complaints

[Mobidomainer]

I don't think so : As far as I know Andres Kallo did that in the past. But he doesn't want to do anything any more.
IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WITH CONTACTS with AFILIAS/DOTMOBI. Sure of the founding members/OLDEST members must have to be able to take contact with them. (unless somebody can contact Andres and convince him to do still something).

Has anyone contacted Afilias/Dotmobi about this?

If the owners of .mobi domains are uncertain and stop renewing them the registry and possibly registrars lose money - it is in their interest to manage the situation and dispel registrant fears.

[Accent]

I see no reason why one of us can't send an email to Hal Lubsen - Afilias' CEO. We either have something he needs - public support - or he doesn't care at all. He has seven months to decide if Afilias is going to formally object. We have until August 12 to make public comments.

The basic address for comments is:
https://gtldcomment.icann.org/commen...3CA4BDA572F4CB

There are two kinds of comments, Comments for evaluation panels and on Objection grounds. They go to different groups, different parts of the process. I believe you can do both, but they have to be separate posts.

Comments for evaluation panels - Comments may be submitted on any active New gTLD application. Comments directed to the evaluation panels and submitted between 13 June 2012 and 12 August 2012 will be forwarded to the evaluation panels to review and consider as part of the application's evaluations. Comments submitted outside of this period will be available for public viewing in the View Comments section of this Forum.
Comments on objection grounds - On this forum, you may also submit comments on any application on the basis of one of the four available objection grounds (string confusion, legal rights, limited public interest, community) specified in the Applicant Guidebook. Comments directed to objection grounds WILL NOT be considered as formal objections and WILL NOT by themselves block an application from being evaluated. Formal objections are required to be lodged directly with a dispute resolution service provider following the process outlined in Module 3 of the Applicant Guidebook. Comments made in this Forum and directed to objection grounds will be available in the View Comments section of the Forum for viewing by the public, independent objector, and dispute resolution service providers.
Other Comments - Comments not intended to be directed to an evaluation panel or objection ground can be made under the "Other" category. Please note that comments directed to this category will not be summarized, analyzed, or sent to the evaluation panels, and will play no part in the evaluation process of an application. They will be available for public viewing in the View Comments section of this Forum.
Additional ways to participate

To provide feedback on the New gTLD Program, please visit the New gTLD Program Feedback Forum.
To provide comment regarding ICANN's policy development, implementation, and operational processes, please visit the ICANN Public Comment Forum.
Resources

Application Comments User Guide
Application Comment Knowledge Base Article
ICANN's Open Comment Forum Process and Standards
ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior

Here is the list of applications - with details if you click them:
http://gtldresult.icann.org/applicat...licationstatus


I wonder if we are better off focusing on only .Mobile.
Mobily is a company's name, I can't see Mobi domains losing traffic to them.
It would be great to block .App .Moi and .Phone but I doubt we have the strength.


What will be most helpful are well-researched, clear and short posts. I am going to wait and think on what to say.

[Scandiman]

I see no reason why one of us can't send an email to Hal Lubsen - Afilias' CEO. We either have something he needs - public support - or he doesn't care at all. He has seven months to decide if Afilias is going to formally object. We have until August 12 to make public comments.

The basic address for comments is:
https://gtldcomment.icann.org/commen...3CA4BDA572F4CB

There are two kinds of comments, Comments for evaluation panels and on Objection grounds. They go to different groups, different parts of the process. I believe you can do both, but they have to be separate posts.



Here is the list of applications - with details if you click them:
http://gtldresult.icann.org/applicat...licationstatus


I wonder if we are better off focusing on only .Mobile.
Mobily is a company's name, I can't see Mobi domains losing traffic to them.
It would be great to block .App .Moi and .Phone but I doubt we have the strength.


What will be most helpful are well-researched, clear and short posts. I am going to wait and think on what to say.

Thanks for the links.

I'll be submitting comments opposing the .mobile extension to ICANN and also to Afilias to the attention of Hal Lubsen the Afilias CEO, the Afilias Board of Directors, and Eileen O'Sullivan, the Chief Financial and Operating Officer of the .mobi extension. I encourage anyone with a concern regarding the .mobile extension or any of the other extensions to send in your own comments as well. This isn't a task for one individual to do, it's for any and all concerned stakeholders to take the time to let your thoughts and concerns be known using the formal channels.

[Mobidomainer]

I'll be submitting comments opposing the .mobile extension to ICANN and also to Afilias to the attention of Hal Lubsen the Afilias CEO, the Afilias Board of Directors, and Eileen O'Sullivan, the Chief Financial and Operating Officer of the .mobi extension.

Do you have the emailaddresses of these persons you mention here ??

(And of course thanks to Accent for the links to put comments).

[Scandiman]

Do you have the emailaddresses of these persons you mention here ??

I don't have their personal e-mail addresses so I'll be using old school registered mail and the contact e-mails listed at their websites.

dotMobi
2 La Touche House
IFSC
Dublin 1
Ireland
Email: [email protected]



Corporate Headquarters:
Afilias Limited
2 La Touche House
IFSC
Dublin 1
Ireland
[email protected]

[gogo]

Thanks to Accent for the links.

I agree DotMobi has to lead here. They have to decide which strings to object to.

Stakeholder comments are supposed to be important in these decisions

Ah, we all forgot that stakeholder interests are supposed to be represented by the MAG

http://mobiadvisorygroup.com/about_mag.html

About MAG

dotMobi is responsible for administration of the .mobi Top Level Domain [TLD], under contract with the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers [ICANN]. dotMobi has been designated as a ‘sponsored’ registry, which means that it represents and serves a particular community – in this case, the Mobile Web community.

MAG exists as a means to facilitate feedback from the dotMobi community on any of dotMobi’s initiatives, both domain and Mobile Web related. It also provides dotMobi with a platform through which is can relay messages and channel information to its community. MAG, as a concept, is recognised in dotMobi’s contract with ICANN and MAG is dotMobi’s main sponsoring organisation. Separate from MAG, dotMobi has a Policy Advisory Board [PAB] which meets periodically to specifically discuss and address policy issues relating to the .mobi TLD.

In order to encourage a wide membership base, MAG is a Web-based, non-fee paying members group.

join it free here
http://mobiadvisorygroup.com/become_mag_member.php

give feedback here
http://mobiadvisorygroup.com/mag_feedback.php


Here is how it was originally
http://mtld.mobi/content/dotmobi-advisory-group

The .mobi Advisory Group (MAG) is the "eyes and ears” of dotMobi. Through the MAG, dotMobi can reach out to the mobile Web consumer, keep in touch with trends and understand, assess and prioritize the needs of the entire community. In turn, the MAG gives its members the opportunity to shape the future of the mobile Web.
MAG membership is open to all commercial and trade association players in the mobile and Information & Communication Technologies (ICT) world. You might be a mobile content provider, developer, mobile operator, mobile device manufacturer or registrar. Or you might represent another interested party from the industry. If you feel you have something valuable to add as a dotMobi stakeholder, then MAG’s doors are open for you.
MAG members have the opportunity to propose policy recommendations to the Policy Advisory Board (PAB) via the MAG Steering Committee. Five elected MAG members also participate in the PAB.
MAG is a self-organizing, self-financing, not-for-profit organization. Members are asked to pay an annual fee to cover running costs.
If you are interested in more details on the MAG or to join, see the MAG Web site.

That MAG website link goes to advisorygroup.mobi which does not resolve.

[Accent]

Hal Lubsen Email: hlubsen [at] afilias.info
(according to ICANNWIKI, whoever they are)

The Afilias list of board members implies that Hal is in Dublin, but most indications are that he lives in the Philadelphia area and works through:
Afilias' US office:
Afilias USA, Inc.
Building 3, Suite 105
300 Welsh Road
Horsham, PA 19044
Tel: +1 215.706.5700
Fax: +1 215.706.5701

[morse]

Did anybody notice ? Afilias has applied for 移动 which is a chinese word (i guess) which means mobile.
http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|移动

Also the chinese word for phone!
http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|%E6%89%8B%E6%9C%BA

[ChinaMobi]

My biggest problem with Chinese or Japanese IDN extension is the confusion in how to type the dot. Is it a dot in ASCII character or the IDN equivalent? If ASCII, then typing takes time as you need to turn on/off the IME.

[gogo]

Did anybody notice ? Afilias has applied for 移动 which is a chinese word (i guess) which means mobile.
http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|移动

Also the chinese word for phone!
http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|手机

Hi there is a sort of summary of assessments of the IDNs over on DNW

http://domainnamewire.com/2012/06/27...on-selections/



And Domain Name Wire have asked Afilias to comment on their position on .mobile but Afilias refused to comment.

http://domainnamewire.com/2012/06/28...-applications/

Indeed, the strings mobi and mobile are very similar. ICANN’s String Similarity Assessment Tool assigns a similarity score of 72, which is quite high.

.Mobi registry Afilias declined to comment for this story. I suspect it is keeping an eye on the situation; it has a long time to file a formal objection should it feel that it’s warranted.

[HipHop.mobi]

hold on your domains, i feel something good coming

[keithmt]

hold on your domains, i feel something good coming

Like?