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Thread: Rick Schwartz auctioning Flowers.mobi with no reserve

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accent View Post
    Snoopy I think we are hijacking the thread.
    Mobility was formed to get away from what many saw as bickering
    over previously discussed material, regardless of intellectual merit.

    I suggest we pick this up on NP at a later date.
    First let me say I appreciate that Snoopy is very cordial and focused in his discussions. I also respect that he's been in the domain industry many years and probably has achieved a level of success that most domain investors will never see. I say probably because I honestly don't know. But I've seen the names he sells and they are always of exceptional quality.

    At the same time I've been over this discussion too many times to count and I know where he stands.

    This statement from Snoopy pretty much summed up his position on Dot Mobi for me:

    Years ago many argued with Scandiman that speculators would lose their shirts with this extension. Even after people have lost their shirts he is still to a large degree in denial and instead of just admitting nobody is really making money continues on with the same convoluted arguments. He will be the last to go down with the ship. Don't be the guy standing next to him.
    Yes, Dot Mobi has lost a lot of ground. It went up way too fast and it crashed just as hard. I have no illusions that Dot Mobi is going to over take Dot Com or anything like that but I certainly don't think the extension is worthless either. That's why I'm still here.

    At the same time though I am not going to go to NamePros and dump on extensions like Dot Net because a few people took huge losses selling in a down economy. One could easily start a debate of how it's foolish to invest in Dot Net because you will just lose traffic to the Dot Com. Would the argument be correct? Sure. Does it mean that Dot Net is worthless? Hell no. But a person can believe that if they want to and that is the value Dot Net will have for them.

    I would remind people here that Dot Com went through a similar boom and bust before it took off again. I lost my ass in the Dot Com boom.

    I had a sale in works for a Dot Net domain for $25k cash and $250k in IPO stock when the market crashed. I was just days away from closing when the bubble burst. I knew before the buyer even called to say all his investors backed out that I was screwed. I ended up selling that domain on the forums for around $2k just to pay bills.

    After that everyone frigging person I knew was telling me that domains were a fad and to dump my investments and get a real job. It took years of struggling to get back on my feet and for previous values to come back to the domain industry.

    Again there is no guarantee Dot mobi will come back or do anything like Dot Com did. At the same time I am so glad I didn't listen to all those folks back then that told me to dump my Dot Coms and get a real job. I love the domain world.


    Just my 2 cents......

    By the way if anyone is planning on taking Snoopy's advice and dump their premium Mobi names please contact me. I may be interested......
    Last edited by think; 10-28-2010 at 03:54 PM.
    C.T. Kirkpatrick
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  2. #212
    Senior Member ChinaMobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    After that everyone frigging person I knew was telling me that domains were a fad and to dump my investments and get a real job. It took years of struggling to get back on my feet and for previous values to come back to the domain industry.

    Again there is no guarantee Dot mobi will come back or do anything like Dot Com did. At the same time I am so glad I didn't listen to all those folks back then that told me to dump my Dot Coms and get a real job. I love the domain world.
    Very precious experience. Thank you for sharing.

  3. #213
    Senior Member gogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andres Kello View Post
    In other words, folks, domaining in .mobi will not make you any money and you should only register .mobi domain names if you have a business and development plan for them that you will actually follow through on.
    Hi Andres

    You are probably right and this is certainly good advice for anyone new to domains and .mobi.

    But we don't absolutely know this and we can't. But no one has come forward to say they are making money in .mobi. What we do know is few public sales are reported and around $5k looks like the ceiling in practice over the last year.

    Now it is theoretically possible that a very clever and foresighted person could identify the very few mobi domainer buyers (there are still some) and feed them domains, or with super salesmanship and effort shift enough cheap mobis to endusers to make a bit of money. I doubt they'd succeed, but as long as a few domains change hand above reg fee that is a theoretical possibility and some will be tempted. One of the temptations in domains, as in gambling, is to believe you know what the outcome will be and put more on the table than you can afford to lose.

    But that misses the point that dealing with mobi is an opportunity cost, and it is a high-risk, low-or-no-return activity. Quite simply, there are far better ways available to get a return on your time and money. That is why some left .mobi long ago.

    There is a dilemma for people who hold really strong keywords in .mobi that could sell in any extension - they may hope for a premium on a mobi domain that, post-bubble, is very unlikely. But dropping names like that would be foolish.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post

    At the same time though I am not going to go to NamePros and dump on extensions like Dot Net because a few people took huge losses selling in a down economy.
    That is a lot different to .mobi where almost all value has been wiped out and very few use the extension.

    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    I would remind people here that Dot Com went through a similar boom and bust before it took off again. I lost my ass in the Dot Com boom.
    I don't think there are many similarities, dot com was the dominant extension right through the boom and bust, it is nothing like .mobi.

    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    After that everyone frigging person I knew was telling me that domains were a fad and to dump my investments and get a real job.
    I think this is exaggerated. I remember a lot of people talking like that, I wouldn't say it was everyone or even the majority of people. What was over was the bad business models of that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    Again there is no guarantee Dot mobi will come back or do anything like Dot Com did. At the same time I am so glad I didn't listen to all those folks back then that told me to dump my Dot Coms and get a real job. I love the domain world.
    The problem is .mobi only ever did well because of some well known domainers decided to buy, it never had any real degree of usage, people were speculating that with all the backers involved and the growth of the mobile internet it might go somewhere. I think it is pretty clear that hasn't happened.

    As I said earlier, it is nothing like the .com bust. Some things bust and come back, other don't. The things that don't come back are usually areas with no fundamentals behind them. Personally I think .mobi is one of those areas.

    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    By the way if anyone is planning on taking Snoopy's advice and dump their premium Mobi names please contact me. I may be interested......
    Not my words, personally I think people should sell out if they are losing money and move on, that doesn't mean sell to the first person who offers anything. Put them up for auction I'd say. If they can't be sold then let them drop.

  5. #215
    Senior Member gogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    very few use the extension.
    Can you refer to any stats about usage?

    Probably not, so the only thing to refer to is registration levels.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    That is a lot different to .mobi where almost all value has been wiped out and very few use the extension.
    Sigh.

    Since you continue to ring the death bell for dot mobi on a forum where most members are invested in the extension I shall respond. Not sure how you feel this benefits anyone other than to fan flames but here we go.


    I do this with the hope that you will indulge us with your take on what you think is the best approach to developing and marketing mobile content for ANY DOMAIN. The main reason I come to this forum is with the goal in mind of furthering my mobile development efforts. That is the main reason WE are still here.


    Yes many still believe Mobi is of value which you don't but you must agree that the future of the internet is mobile and that domain investors must take this into account. Correct?


    As far as the extreme loss in value for Dot Mobi, even you know the newest TLDs suffer the most in a tough economy. Comparing the use of and recognition of Dot Mobi which was introduced 5 years ago to the use of Dot Net which has been around for TWENTY FIVE YEARS is a bit unfair don't you think?


    Dot Net has been around as long as Dot Com and it still lost a HUGE amount of value in this dip. No, Dot Net didn't lose all it's value and it is bouncing back much quicker than Mobi , Info, Biz,etc. But considering the the length of time Dot Net has been around and how well known and used the extension is it hasn't performed well during this down turn.


    Shoes.info just sold at auction for around $3k on Sedo. Does that mean Dot Info is toast? Again a resounding HELL NO. It means the market is soft and being a newer TLD sales prices are down more than the established TLDs like Dot Com, Net, and ORG.


    Overall the domain market is constantly changing and investors must constantly adapt. A new GTLD or shortened CC TLD comes out every 4 to 6 months now days. Before you can get your domain paid for the shine has worn off and everyone is rushing to spend their money to be on the ground floor of the newest next best thing.


    Only the cream of these TLDs if any will be worth anything and one needs to be be very careful if they invest in them. The shortened CC TLDs of countries with solid existing markets look to be a much better bet (IMO).


    In general 3 letter domains outside old school established tlds will be very risky investments with very soft returns. In my eyes the days of people aggressively investing in qwx.com net biz etc type 3 letter domains are gone. Outside of Dot Com some will have value but many more than currently will not.


    Three years ago I was selling 3 to 5 Dot Biz 3 letter domains per year to end users and making about $500-$1200. Not huge sales but decent for reg fee domains. Even on the wholesale market you could get $50-$90 for decent but not prime 3 letter biz.


    I haven't sold a 3 letter biz to an end user in almost 2 years now and on the wholesale level you can't give away 3 letter Biz. I will still keep my best 3 letter Biz and top keywords but many lesser names and weak 3 letters will be dropped.


    As I have been saying the WHOLE domain market is down.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    I don't think there are many similarities, dot com was the dominant extension right through the boom and bust, it is nothing like .mobi.
    Wow. No similarities? Really? No early boom and bust with unrealistic expectations based on flawed business models? No similarity in that Dot Com was created for the emerging PC internet and Dot Mobi was created for the emerging mobile internet market?

    Oh wait. You still consider the internet as ubiquitous with no reason to consider alternate methods of interacting via mobile devices and plan to be scrolling, pinching and zooming for years to come. So I can see where based on your "one size fits all" view of the internet you'd see Mobi as non unique with no similarities.


    What? You say companies can build smart Dot Coms that can recognize mobile devices so who needs Mobi? Well that's just frigging wonderful. Now how do I as the consumer know which Dot Com sites have made the mobile leap and which have not?


    I understand why some members here say that Mobi can be used without being optimized for mobile. This comes out of frustration with MTLD abandoning compliance enforcement. But in 2 to 3 years when mobile content and applications are more advanced and common mobile users will come to expect this mobile experience and it my hope that with enforcement or not developers are using Mobi as it was intended to assure mobile internet users they will get quick, targeted information and applications.


    People will want to go to sites where they KNOW they will get great mobile content and apps. They won't want to guess does this site have mobile content? Sure everyone will know the big guys have mobile content but what about the rest of the sites?


    Don't get me wrong I understand that Mobi isn't "necessary" and mobile search engines will eventually help guide users to good mobile content regardless of the TLD but developers creating content and apps specifically for the mobile user can get a shorter and easier to remember url that also tells the user the content being created was created with the mobile user in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy
    I think this is exaggerated. I remember a lot of people talking like that, I wouldn't say it was everyone or even the majority of people. What was over was the bad business models of that time.
    In the last ten years I've heard the argument of a TLD being junk about EVERY TLD including Dot Com after the crash. I still ignored it and have made money on most TLDs. It wasn't easy and you have to research what you are investing in but it can be done.


    I remember a time about 7 years ago when you couldn't give away a 3 letter Org and domain investors considered it a useless TLD. Then Engineering.org sold for around $200k. Things changed.


    Right now Dot Mx domains are dropping like flies and very nice names can be picked up for reg fee. The reg fee is very high so one would want to focus on trying to grab a few top domains.


    Will Dot Mx rebound? I think it will. But at the same time I have to balance renewal costs and or development costs to the frame of time it may take for the TLD to take hold. It may take many years for the true value of the domain to be realized. Most people forget that Dot Com names now selling for seven figures are names that people held and renewed in many cases for well over TEN years!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy
    The problem is .mobi only ever did well because of some well known domainers decided to buy, it never had any real degree of usage, people were speculating that with all the backers involved and the growth of the mobile internet it might go somewhere. I think it is pretty clear that hasn't happened.
    Yes, this is a big reason for the early spike in prices but many invested because of the large institutional backers that originally started Mobi. Having Google MSN, Nokia and others on board seemed like a strong signal that they planned to adopt it's use. Some have done a great job of using Mobi in parts of their business and others like Google just milked it for the industry knowledge it could glean.(Again just my op)

    Many of us still believe mobile content is and will be truly unique to PC content and this also keeps us interested Dot Mobi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy
    As I said earlier, it is nothing like the .com bust. Some things bust and come back, other don't. The things that don't come back are usually areas with no fundamentals behind them. Personally I think .mobi is one of those areas.
    So you've said repeatedly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy
    Not my words, personally I think people should sell out if they are losing money and move on, that doesn't mean sell to the first person who offers anything. Put them up for auction I'd say. If they can't be sold then let them drop.
    **

    Hogwash. Your statement above is directly telling Mobi investors to drop and dump their names. Sounds pretty clear to me.

    If someone needs to sell names then they should. Otherwise it would be fool hearty to advise those with good Mobi names to sell at the bottom of the market and take a loss unless it would benefit them tax wise. If you can use a tax loss and want to move then do it. Otherwise you might as well hold for a few years or develop with long term monetization goals in mind.

    No one knows if prices will rebound for Mobi but I personally don't see prices going lower than they are. If anyone does then by all means SELL.

    In addition people should sell or drop marginal names in ANY TLD in this current environment. Still I won't be selling any of my better Mobis on the open market anytime soon. I still have one or two Dot Coms I've held for over ten years now. I am willing to hold my best Mobis and wait and see.

    At the same time I am actively working to develop as many of my best domains in EVERY TLD. The game keeps changing and I hope do my best to change with it.

    In closing.

    Snoopy. I hope you stick around and add to the constructive side of the mobile development discussion while you're here tearing down those who have invested in Mobi. I guess you have every right to speak your mind and run Mobi and it's investors into the ground but you are also an intelligent individual that I think would add a great deal to the positive discussion if it is of interest to you.

    Sorry for sounding preachy and condescending and being so frigging long winded....
    Last edited by think; 10-29-2010 at 07:45 PM.
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  7. #217
    Senior Member ChinaMobi's Avatar
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    You are a thinking person, think. Very thoughtful analysis.

  8. #218
    Founding Member Scandiman's Avatar
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    CT, great post, but neg rep because I read it on my iphone

    J/K rep+

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scandiman View Post
    CT, great post, but neg rep because I read it on my iphone

    J/K rep+
    Laughed so hard it hurt when I read your reply!

    You'll be happy to know I cut out about 8 paragraphs
    C.T. Kirkpatrick
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  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinaMobi View Post
    You are a thinking person, think. Very thoughtful analysis.
    Awe shucks China Mobi. Thank you!

    Some people just know how to drag it out of me j/k......
    C.T. Kirkpatrick
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  11. #221
    Founding Member Scandiman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    Laughed so hard it hurt when I read your reply!

    You'll be happy to know I cut out about 8 paragraphs
    I would have gladly read the unabridged version.

    We've experienced many similar things. I was told I was nuts to register .com domains at $100 a pop (the going rate in the beginning and not so easy when poor) and then again when the .com bubble burst (unfortunately I listened a few times, now I wouldn't mind having some of those CC.coms back today, but back then 3G and 4G didn't mean what it does today). 9/11 cost me a very large domain sale, but I didn't lose any loved ones like many others did so I count my blessings, plus I've made many sales over the years to make my .com endeavors profitable and I still buy .com today (which I consider to be the best TLD for brandables). Having been through the highs and lows helps me see beyond the shifting winds of today and keep an even keel towards my objectives. With .mobi I see a viable future for the many reasons already discussed. I could be right or wrong, time will tell, it's my own risk to take, and rewards to hopefully enjoy. I do know that calling the game now is extremely premature, the core value proposition for .mobi is barely getting started.

  12. #222
    Mobility Regular limomobi's Avatar
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    Love your post Think. I finished 1/2. LOL. I'll finish the other 1/2 tomorrow.

    Always a pleasure to read though Think.
    Last edited by limomobi; 10-30-2010 at 02:57 AM.

  13. #223
    Senior Member ChinaMobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scandiman View Post
    Having been through the highs and lows helps me see beyond the shifting winds of today and keep an even keel towards my objectives. With .mobi I see a viable future for the many reasons already discussed. I could be right or wrong, time will tell, it's my own risk to take, and rewards to hopefully enjoy.
    Very much agreed. Through failure and success in past investments I've also learned to look at the bigger picture and take calculated risks.

    Just few minutes ago I paid $7.17 to register a China-related .mobi that someone dropped recently. After some research and analysis, I came up with a business plan to develop it. I also decided to code only in HTML5, meaning I'll completely ignore legacy PC users. I'll rather go for simplicity than comprehensiveness.
    Last edited by ChinaMobi; 10-30-2010 at 08:59 AM. Reason: add more comment

  14. #224
    Mobility Regular limomobi's Avatar
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    Scandiman, do you sail? Shifting winds, and even keel. Thing 1 can sail backwards now. Tomorrow is all fun. Sailing and trick o treating. I'm going to be tired out.

    ChinaMobi, I've kept to the simplicity rule. We borrow the sailboats that already are in the docks. We don't own any so have no headaches of storing, etc...
    Last edited by limomobi; 10-30-2010 at 05:24 PM.

  15. #225
    Mobility Regular limomobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    The main reason I come to this forum is with the goal in mind of furthering my mobile development efforts. That is the main reason WE are still here.
    Me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    You still consider the internet as ubiquitous with no reason to consider alternate methods of interacting via mobile devices and plan to be scrolling, pinching and zooming for years to come. So I can see where based on your "one size fits all" view of the internet you'd see Mobi as non unique with no similarities.
    I learned a new word "ubiquitous". I hate scrolling, pinching, and zooming. My dh's new free blackberry is a stink to use. I can't see a darn thing on a full .com. I zoom in blindly, then have to scroll around looking at 1/30th of the site. Simply awful. Yes, I know some .com have mobile versions. But most do not. mobile versions or .mobi, I really don't care as a consumer. Just make it rock. Of course, shorter url is easier for me to remember. Which is why disney.mobi advertises disney.mobi on their disney channel and amtrak.mobi exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    ... my hope that with enforcement or not, developers are using Mobi as it was intended to assure mobile internet users they will get quick, targeted information and applications.
    Yes, I agree with you completely. That was the whole objective of limo.mobi. Just a couple of clicks, and you are connected to the limo companies of your choice. Simple, fast, and efficient.

    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    Don't get me wrong I understand that Mobi isn't "necessary" and mobile search engines will eventually help guide users to good mobile content regardless of the TLD but developers creating content and apps specifically for the mobile user can get a shorter and easier to remember url that also tells the user the content being created was created with the mobile user in mind.
    Well how cool is that. A mobile search engine that guides users to good mobile content. There aren't thousands of good mobile content websites for .com. So if we build thousands of good .mobi mobile content website, when more .mobi is pulled up, the better for the brand .mobi. Plus, I have found that the younger generation don't care if it is a .com, or other tld. They adapt quickly. They are used to seeing other tld's. Not like my generation when .com just came out where we are used to seeing and doing business on .com. So the more exposed the next generation is to other tlds... .com, .net, .org, country tlds, .mobi, etc... the less loyal they are to .com Shorter easier url that are easy to remember, developed correctly, and are efficient to the point, works for the newer generation. Twitter is short, and fast. That is why it is a success. The new generation wants to embrace something of their own to distinguish themselves from other generations. It might come with a new tld they like. Just like they call themselves the X, Y, or Z Generation. Perhaps they will call their generation the mobile web generation and distinguish it with a new tld. You never know. I can see my kids telling me, I belong to the .com generation and they the new "dot whatever" generation. I kid you not. If this happens, please let the world know I said it first. Just kidding. Ha Ha Ha Ha.

    Perhaps I'll go join Facebook and Twitter. I'll tell them to distinguish themselves from us old fuddy duddies ".com generation" and that they are the better mobile web generation. Perhaps someone can whisper .mobi generation and start a trend. Afterall, who termed X Generation? X for what. Then Y? and now Z! It is all ridiculously funny to me. But once they like the name, it becomes... you guessed it ubiquitous! Omnipresent.

    All joking aside... have a great weekend.
    Last edited by limomobi; 10-31-2010 at 02:52 AM.

  16. #226
    Senior Member ChinaMobi's Avatar
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    Yes, @limomobi. No maintenance issue. We "have" a cat, but she belongs to our neighbors She comes to stay with us almost everyday but when she's sick our neighbor gets the medical bills.

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