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Thread: Will dotMobi shut down?

  1. #1
    Senior Member gogo's Avatar
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    Exclamation Will dotMobi shut down?

    Here is a simple question for you.

    At what floor level of registrations will the private owners of Dotmobi shut it down?

    They must have a base figure below which losses would not be supported or there would be no hope of ever covering the expenses. Dotmobi is a private company which does not publish its results or benchmarks. Do they pay tax in the Republic of Ireland, sometimes used as a tax dodge address by UK companies? Can we obtain their annual accounts? In the UK you can obtain company accounts from Companies House for a very small fee.

    How much of each registration fee goes to Dotmobi?

    Does Dotmobi have any income other than domain registration fees and Device Atlas? The private owners of the company may be profiting from it, or pouring subsidy into it for some wider strategic objective which they could re-evaluate at any time.

    What happens when a registry fails or shuts down? Do domain owners lose everything, even page rank 9 sites with all their links? Is there a shutdon procedure stipulated by ICANN, and is there any protection for domain owners? This is a really important question, as some of the new TLDs will inevitably fail and take down names and sites with them.

  2. #2
    Mobility Regular Mobitunist's Avatar
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    Has any domain extension ever gone belly up?

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    Good question & one where the answer will be interesting (if you could get an answer)

    Personally, I don't believe that mTLD will be shutting down any time soon...
    The potential for mobile is still all ahead of us... so even if the owners decided that they wanted out, I think there would be buyers waiting in the wings.. indeed, between us at Mobility we could put our heads together and engineer a buy out (ok, maybe not with my savings ;-)

    Seriously, there is a future with dotmbobi and in all honesty, if mTLD was bought out at a later date and if the buyer was a big corporate body with plenty of funds to invest in promotion etc.. it might even be a good thing?

    BUT I don't mean to knock mTLD... I hope that they succeed in making dotmobi the number one gTLD for mobile...

    As for break-even numbers - I have no idea... with overheads etc.. It wouldn't surprise me if they weren't far away from that scenario now?

  4. #4
    Founding Member Scandiman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobitunist View Post
    Has any domain extension ever gone belly up?
    .travel came close, but they're still plugging away. If .aero can survive, I see little reason why mTLD can't thrive. But only the numbers tell the full story and I'm not aware of those numbers.

  5. #5
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    dotmobi is shutting down on November 33rd of this year ... thats why i've been having all these firesales.. you didnt know?


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    Quote Originally Posted by mjnels View Post
    dotmobi is shutting down on November 33rd of this year ... thats why i've been having all these firesales.. you didnt know?
    That is the great day of Old Latrobe that we have all been warned about!

    Beware of Rolling Rock!

    C.T. Kirkpatrick
    Austin Texas
    Akron.mobi

  7. #7
    Senior Member keithmt's Avatar
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    DM shutting down??? Nah. I do wonder what will become
    of the 1 and 2 character name distribution though

  8. #8
    Senior Member gogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scandiman View Post
    .travel came close, but they're still plugging away. If .aero can survive, I see little reason why mTLD can't thrive. But only the numbers tell the full story and I'm not aware of those numbers.
    Yes looks like in 2007 .travel nearly died -

    http://www.isquattedyour.eu/2007/05/...vel-could-die/


    and http://www.circleid.com/posts/853010...ill_isnt_dead/

    But then I read the rest of the 10-Q, which reveals that .TRAVEL is, for a change, in no immediate danger of going away. The registry is owned by an entity called Tralliance which is in turn owned by a public company called theglobe.com, which filed the 10-Q. Theglobe was the fluffiest of dot.com startups, notable for the greatest day-of-IPO price jump ever, and has in the past decade burned through $300 million in a variety of unsuccessful lines of business. (See previous blog entries.) For the past several years the controlling shareholder has been Michael Egan, who made a large fortune in an unrelated car rental business.
    According to the 10-Q, Tralliance generates about $1.5 million per year in revenue, which should be enough to keep it going just fine. Something is costing $200K/mo in administrative overhead, above and beyond sales and marketing and the modest cost of actually running the registry. Assuming they can cut down on the three martini lunches or whatever, a standalone Tralliance looks like it would be viable. So the plan is to sell Tralliance to a private company held by Egan in return for cancelling all the debt from Egan's prior cash infusions, and a 10% claim on future revenue. Why, you might ask, would they do this? Because theglobe still has over a million dollars in unpaid bills from former lines of business, notably their Voiceglo voip phone service. This unhooks Tralliance from all of the debt, and the 10% of revenue will trickle money out to theglobe's creditors who might decide that getting something from the trickle is better than forcing them into bankruptcy and getting nothing, since Egan's debt is probably senior to theirs. Or even if they do force bankruptcy, it's tough noogies since by then theglobe will have no assets beyond the 10% trickle.
    So it's not a particularly noble situation, but it looks like .TRAVEL can survive to fail another day. It still has the fundamental problem of all sponsored TLDs that nobody cares (except, of course for me, the proud proprietor of http://airinfo.travel) but there's not much they can do about that.
    Last edited by gogo; 08-05-2009 at 09:00 AM. Reason: and

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    Senior Member seanboy's Avatar
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    December 21, 2012

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    Senior Member thebiffenator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    That is the great day of Old Latrobe that we have all been warned about!

    Beware of Rolling Rock!

    I must be stupid, I must of asked this question numerous times of what 33 stands for and many people told me but forgot. I love rolling rock too, along with Yuengling "America's oldst Brewary" Both are famous in my area since I am from PA .

    But I think Dot MObi will be shut down February 29thi 2010 with out a doubt.

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    Founding Member Scandiman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebiffenator View Post
    I must be stupid, I must of asked this question numerous times of what 33 stands for and many people told me but forgot.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Rock#Number_33

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    "That is just the silliest explanation I have ever heard" 10

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    Rolling Rock and Yuengling ewwww ... just teasing a bit. okay mid-grade beers i guess.. but if im gonna drink crap i'll stick with the cheapest/strongest/crappiest, Natural Ice.. (yea i know, ewwww)


    this is whats in my fridge now :




    annnnnyway... on a serious note i dont think the .mobi registry will be ever be anywhere close to shutting down. as pointed out, .travel came close but they charge $100 per year which is a serious hinderance to lots of potentional registrants... its no secret that a decent chunk of registrations are speculator driven.. and $100 compared to $6 per year is a big difference. from what i've seen the last 3 years, mTLD seems way beyond smart enough to at least stay afloat.
    Last edited by mjnels; 03-19-2010 at 06:58 PM.


  14. #14
    MobiEnthusiast coast's Avatar
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    I would be really surprised to see them go out of business. Granted, with all the names we've dropped here on the forum I can see why you'd be concerned. But, again, we're not their only customers.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member gogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coast View Post
    I would be really surprised to see them go out of business. Granted, with all the names we've dropped here on the forum I can see why you'd be concerned. But, again, we're not their only customers.
    Whoever owns Dotmobi can shut them down whenever they like, unless there is a formal shutdown procedure for a domain registry - do we know if there are terms and procedures for shutdown? And what they are?

    Generally people say about 80% of domains are held by domainers, and that might be higher in the case of .mobi. But if domain registration levels go low enough, reasonable domains can be found unregistered and unless you want a super name you can get one without going to a domainer. If there is little prospect of income there is little point in domainer involvement, especially if you believe you could find good names unregistered in the future.

    Consider that Dotmobi have never enforced anything - standards or premium development requirements -and it looks like it might all have been a big bluff and a gamble, albeit one which could succeed. In other words, perhaps there never was any intention or budget to enforce anything - we also know there was no marketing budget for an extension which is essentially a marketing exercise. All they needed to do was get enough domains sold AND developed to create an influx to Dotmobi, assuming others would follow. And they would need to keep the percentage of developments that were mobile-friendly just high enough, ie possibly above 50%, to convince users this domain offers mobile content. And they would need to make the right statements to keep domainers renewing to keep the company afloat.

    At this point there are domains developed and some big names involved, but it needs a bigger influx to achieve modest success like .biz and there is no sign of that influx. I don't think anyone still deludes themselves that .mobi will be the default extension for mobile, but more modest success might still happen.

    So for a rational investor it is essential at this point to investigate the solvency of Dotmobi.


    Rather than drown sorrows in drink, let's guess at a few rough figures:

    INCOME
    income per domain sold / renewed : $5
    Device Atlas $100/ subscription - how many are there?

    EXPENSES
    staff costs: $35,000/annum * 30 staff = at least $1m
    offices etc ? 500k
    marketing $0
    debt servicing?
    payments to "backers" to use their names?

    ASSETS
    possibly Device Atlas
    possibly Ready.mobi
    possibly unsold premiums
    possibly a few good .coms


    Assuming minimum expenses of $1.5m and income of $5/domain, below 300,000 registrations per annum the company would lose money.

    At the current, probably falling, level of 800,000 domains, profits could be as high as $2.5m per annum - certainly enough to cover a considerable marketing and promotions effort.
    Last edited by gogo; 08-05-2009 at 08:22 AM. Reason: typo

  16. #16
    Senior Member Work In Progress's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't see the end of mobi happening anytime soon. Again, keep in mind that this is still a unique (not to mention, young) TLD that was specifically brought into play as a mobile extension. As most things new coming into an established industry, it's not often embraced by the "regulars". This has certainly been the case with .mobi. Will this ever catch on in a grand scale? Who knows? As others have said, only time will tell. Could it become extinct? Sure...but so could hundreds of others as well.

    I think as long as content continues to increase, so will exposure...which will eventually lead to acceptance.


  17. #17
    Senior Member hawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Work In Progress View Post
    Personally, I don't see the end of mobi happening anytime soon.....
    ..I..don't..know...here. I read over on NP that it's already dead and gone.

  18. #18
    MobiEnthusiast coast's Avatar
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    Gogo, where is this coming from? I mean, what led you to ask the question?

    Anyone can pull the plug on their investment whether it is profitable or not I suppose. After the most recent domainer convention in Los Angeles, Pinky and Amy, said they are adding staff, not cutting staff

    Let's remember, too, as much as we all want a more visible consumer marketing effort by mtld, they have positioned themselves as a business-to-business entity and are marketing to businesses privately. In that respect they are succeeding. Their efforts with corporations are paying off with more corporate .mobi's being used every day and redirects are considered a legitimate business use of the tld.

    This is how rumors get started, so again, I'm curious where this is coming from?
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  19. #19
    Mobility Regular capt. ahab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjnels View Post
    Rolling Rock and Yuengling ewwww ... just teasing a bit. okay mid-grade beers i guess.. but if im gonna drink crap i'll stick with the cheapest/strongest/crappiest, Natural Ice.. (yea i know, ewwww)


    this is whats in my fridge now :


    Dotmobi will shut down when I go buy some Double Chocolate Stout. Which will be never. Chocolate beer ????

    Last edited by mjnels; 03-19-2010 at 06:58 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by capt. ahab View Post
    Dotmobi will shut down when I go buy some Double Chocolate Stout. Which will be never. Chocolate beer ????

    sounds strange i know.. but its not like a sweet milk-chocolate taste at all.. they use real cocoa which actually fits perfectly with the whole stout thing... if a person likes a strong dark stout, i cant see them not liking this after trying it.

    http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/664/73


  21. #21
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    I'm only under about $200 right now after owning - selling nearly 200 names for 2.5 years and spending p*ssing away, $1000 on my amazon scripts. If DM went under tomorrow, I could continue living just fine. It'd be a whole lot cooler if'n they didn't.

    re: chocobeer, had it - it's ok. My fav oddball beer is a local beer out here called orange blossom. You can buy it right from the micro brewer off of route 395 on the way to the Sierras. The owner is a top shelf gent. Don't listen to those snobs at beer advocate. It's a really nice summer beer.
    Last edited by coast; 08-09-2009 at 11:06 PM.

  22. #22
    Senior Member gogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coast View Post
    Gogo, where is this coming from? I mean, what led you to ask the question?
    I'm really surprised these questions were not asked a long time ago. We have all been making assumptions about Dotmobi / MTLD and sometimes seeing what we want to see, and not obtaining essential info that investors should have. We do not know if they are in profit or not. There has to be a trigger level of registrations at which they are not in profit, and as registrations fall it is prudent to know when that trigger is hit - if they ever were in profit - and what might happen next. Will their owners keep them afloat?

    In the UK it is illegal to carry on trading when you hit the point where you cannot credibly hope to repay your debts - you are then technically bankrupt and must stop trading. I don't think MTLD are at that point, but I don't know. Their "backers" have been whimsical enough I could see them deciding to shut it down - and we still do not know the shutdown procedure (I read elsewhere that for the next TLDs a three year minimum operation period will be specced - http://www.circleid.com/posts/200812...c_tld_process/)

    Now the interesting bit - their 2009 report will be filed later this month.

    the 2008 report can be found here by searching for MTLD:
    http://www.cro.ie/ena/about-cro-company-search.aspx

    which should get you this:
    http://www.cro.ie/search/submissions...er=398040&BI=C
    ie a very long list of changes to company directors(why?) and also annual reports.

    The reports don't give profits, loss or income, but they list the directors, their DOB and other directorships, and the company share capital.

    Bingo. We should have looked at this before.

    12,000,000 issued shares with nominal value of 1 Euro each, held by:

    Google: 600,000
    GSM 600, 000
    Hutchison 600,000
    Microsoft 1,800,000
    Nokia 1,800,000
    Orascom 600,000
    Samsung 600,000
    Syniverse 600,000
    Ericsson 600,000
    Telefonica Moviles 600,000
    Telecom Italia 600,000
    T-Mobile 600,000
    Visa International 600,000
    Vodafone 1,800,000

    -end-

  23. #23
    Founding Member Dave's Avatar
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    I somehow just can't see this happening, to be honest, although I have no hard data to back that up. But even if they ever did "fail," I suspect there would be a number of interested buyers who might come along to take it over. And who knows?...that could lead to bigger and better things.

  24. #24
    Senior Member noonoo1's Avatar
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    Oh, that's put the cat amongst the pidgeons.

  25. #25
    Administrator Andres Kello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogo View Post
    Bingo. We should have looked at this before.

    12,000,000 issued shares with nominal value of 1 Euro each, held by:

    Google: 600,000
    GSM 600, 000
    Hutchison 600,000
    Microsoft 1,800,000
    Nokia 1,800,000
    Orascom 600,000
    Samsung 600,000
    Syniverse 600,000
    Ericsson 600,000
    Telefonica Moviles 600,000
    Telecom Italia 600,000
    T-Mobile 600,000
    Visa International 600,000
    Vodafone 1,800,000
    It is interesting that a 7-figure investment by Visa in mTLD only resulted in 600,000 Euro's worth of shares. I don't recall the Euro ever hitting 1.667 (particularly in March of 2007), so I wonder where the rest of their "7-figure" investment went.

    It's also revealing to see that the 3 companies who have done the most for .mobi are also the ones who have invested the most (Nokia and Microsoft with their multiple .mobi sites, Vodafone with their whitelisting of .mobi). At the end of the day, though, these are negligible amounts for such large corporations, which explains why a lot of them have just sat back (e.g. Google) and done very little if anything at all for this extension.

    As for the topic at hand, considering mTLD's multiple revenue streams, their backers, and the legal issues they would face, I don't see .mobi ever shutting down.
    My .mobi's: Dating.mobi | Dubai.mobi | Adult.mobi | Banking.mobi | Student.mobi | Call.mobi | Horoscope.mobi | Messenger.mobi | Classifieds.mobi | LiveTV.mobi

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  26. #26
    Senior Member newton's Avatar
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    Dead and Gone was justin timberlake, not dot mobi

    I want Carlsberg to bring back Elephant lager!!!
    Last edited by newton; 08-06-2009 at 04:01 AM.
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  27. #27
    MobiEnthusiast coast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagersh View Post
    I somehow just can't see this happening, to be honest, although I have no hard data to back that up. But even if they ever did "fail," I suspect there would be a number of interested buyers who might come along to take it over. And who knows?...that could lead to bigger and better things.
    If it did happen, that would be such irony, especially after mowser's swan song only to rise like a phoenix as instant mobilizer.

    I'm feeling poetic after being beaten up by the Pacific Ocean tonight.
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  28. #28
    Senior Member DomainTalker's Avatar
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    I think gogo's right to ask this question....

    ...And, whether, or not, dotmobi, itself, is a solvent organisation (it probably is), the sub-text is: 'This brand is failing...'


    Fundamental questions like this get raised when people are genuinely concerned....And, it becomes significant when absolute core stakeholder/supporters of a brand are the ones seriously asking the question...


    Brand vacuums cause questions like this. Brand drift. And, performance....And, corporate strategies that are at odds with the intuitive instincts of those that operate at the coal-face in the marketplace. In this case, domain holders, large, and small.

    It was obvious to many a year ago that targeting the big corporates - but NOT the consumer marketplace - was not going to do it. The 'trickle-down' market awareness of .mobi - and, therefore usage - was always going to be too slow in the fast-developing mobile consumer market, where an alternative existed.


    I have a couple of Page Rank 3 good name .mobi's, which are increasing traffic. But, its relative. Tiny. They're making no impact. Going nowhere.....And, everywhere I turn to promote them, I get the same response: '....mobi? What's that? Why?...'

    This brand is invisible.


    One wouldn't invest in an invisible, unpromoted, brand on the stockmarkets of the world....where the number of people buying the company's product is actually declining - and, where the tradeable market for one's stake/shares, and the product, is moribund...!!

    ...Initial promotion of the .mobi brand got me into it, and behind it....The lack of ongoing visible promotion to establish the brand strength in the global mobile consumer market is leading me....well...


    gogo is right to raise this topic. Its fundamental to stakeholder confidence...

    ...And 'stakeholder' (that provides much of the ongoing revenue through registrations) includes domain holders.

    .
    Last edited by DomainTalker; 08-06-2009 at 04:47 AM.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DomainTalker View Post
    This brand is invisible.
    One commercial. No overt sponsorships. No mainstream penetration. I have to spell out my email every time to everyone.

    But, with all of that said, I didn't spend even high X,XXX for my whole play, so WTF is my real stake? Not much. I'll keep and build out what I want and how it suits me. I was still able to get nice keyword domains. I can put both a PC and mobile site on it. Also, it appears I can abuse the mobile compatibility without fear of reprisal too. Nice.


  30. #30
    Administrator Andres Kello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DomainTalker View Post
    Fundamental questions like this get raised when people are genuinely concerned....And, it becomes significant when absolute core stakeholder/supporters of a brand are the ones seriously asking the question...


    Quote Originally Posted by DomainTalker View Post
    This brand is invisible.


    Quote Originally Posted by DomainTalker View Post
    One wouldn't invest in an invisible, unpromoted, brand on the stockmarkets of the world....


    Quote Originally Posted by DomainTalker View Post
    ...And 'stakeholder' (that provides much of the ongoing revenue through registrations) includes domain holders.


    Great post, DT. Spot on. Rep+
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