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Thread: Are we in a gold mine or a rubble pile?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    It's an expedient way to reach the bottom of the market. These drop catchers don't really resemble the snap or pool. At least they have a minimum that is not ZERO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scandiman View Post
    Can't blame drop catchers for their business model, find and sell for a profit, whatever margin they can muster. They aren't the ones dropping the names, they simply recycle for a living.


  2. #32
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    I guess my bottom line is .mobi names seem to be currently worthless and these "dropcatchers" are unabashedly proving it every day and, well, that's a sucky realization to make.

    My investment was made good three weeks after landrush. All my development costs are paid off. I'm not losing. I'm just disappointed that the ride is over, sans developing. oh well.


  3. #33
    Founding Member Scandiman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    It's an expedient way to reach the bottom of the market. These drop catchers don't really resemble the snap or pool. At least they have a minimum that is not ZERO.
    When the landrush drops are over then zero is about all someone will get for a crappy drop catch. Then the business of flipping drops en masse will be essentially over.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Gerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egnited View Post
    My take on it all is... take the opportunity to buy while the buyin' is good.
    True, it will be much like the stock market.

    I am being picky due to (1) limited budget (2) development projects and commitments (3) tremendous quality in all extensions I am seeing.

    I am picking up .com's and .net's 12-15 years of age, tons of links and traffic. I am getting offers and selling many on sedo (no for as much as I would like but being realistic) and have never intended on being a flipper but I have been able to sell many of my catches for a very handsome profit. Not that I intend to sell or advertise anything, but the buyer contacts me through the whois. I have sold several in less than 2 weeks ownership.

    In regards to the "core" product - premium and prime are subjective and always subject to ones interpretation. Those who bought and hold and don't develope that prime or premium product are bitching about the lack of sites or monitization - whether it is .com or .mobi.

    Well, I consider the core product those national and international brands that are using .mobi and those sites by mobility's members.

    Without sites and branding and at least a start someplace to build a brand and awareness, those holding those premium names would be in a ****load of pain without them.

  5. #35
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    I have a friend who is now a multi millionaire. He started from nothing. His advice to me is to always do the opposite to what others are doing.

    We can see the mobile web growing daily. More and more big companies are realising the importance of having a mobile site to compliment there pc site.

    Mobi may never be the mobile equivalent of "com". This would reduce the value of the mobi extension to domain flippers.

    Developing and getting our sites listed with the mobile search engines is so important.

    I am so busy building 3 networks of sites. I now have 70 developed mobi sites. I pledge to have double this number developed by the end of 2009. I know that updates to sites takes time and slows down the development of other sites.

    I think things will get worse after Christmas. Not only for mobi. It is just very bad luck that the timing for the 2 year renewals is now.

    I don't know if it will last ,but I am currently making enough $$$ from my developed mobi s to pay for renewals and purchases.

    Developing mobi's is now very rewarding.

    Those of us with top class names developed into useful mobile sites will be rewarded.
    The name is not as important as the development.


    Good luck everyone .
    Last edited by namelot; 12-11-2008 at 05:35 AM.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namelot View Post
    I think things will get worse after Christmas. Not only for mobi. It is just very luck that the timing for the 2 year renewals is now.
    I agree. If ya'll think things are bad now, just wait another 4-6 months. In the US we will see gas prices averaging below $1.50/gallon. The unemployment rate will skyrocket.

    The economy will get much worse than it is even now. It's unavoidable. All this bailout crap will only delay the unpreventable. This has been years in the making...

    So, prepare yourselves folks - both online and off.

  7. #37
    Senior Member gogo's Avatar
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    Did anybody notice that the name dropcatcher.mobi was going to drop the other day?

  8. #38
    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogo View Post
    Did anybody notice that the name dropcatcher.mobi was going to drop the other day?
    Yep... mjnels got it.

  9. #39
    Mobility Regular benflippin's Avatar
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    I guess my bottom line is .mobi names seem to be currently worthless and these "dropcatchers" are unabashedly proving it every day and, well, that's a sucky realization to make.
    1) mobi is alive and well for those wishing to develop on it.
    2) as an investment purely on domain name, yes it is not looking good at the moment (for those that spent BIG buck$ for names). but fingers are crossed for the best.
    3) mobi drop catches.....
    a. there are a few (far from being me) that are going to have a nice christmas because of flippin a few names at 3 -10x's what they paid for them.
    b. and i think that shows that it is a money makin' extension (just not hundreds of thousands of dollars from a single name)
    c. and hasnt it been fun for those buyers and sellers, it has ben like a little landrush II but its more like a lottery ticket landrush II .

    summery: some people have lost faith, money or whatever run out and they have let some decent names fall. people pick them up and sell them and then people purchase. a small cash flow(movement) is better then none. helps keep the mobi market at least moving and not becoming stale.

    and trying to catch these decent (landrush) names is about an once in an extensions lifetime opportunity, no?


    p.s
    zzddqqss.mobi is dropping tomorrow for all that are interested.
    Last edited by benflippin; 12-11-2008 at 06:07 AM.

  10. #40
    Senior Member GijsZePa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by developmy.mobi View Post
    ... I've been creating 'regular' websites for almost 6 years now.....
    WTF ? Did you start from your birth ?

    Martin
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  11. #41
    MobiEnthusiast coast's Avatar
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    Tim, I know you've made some great sites and I apologize for leaving your name off that list.

    Did you not see how I have dropped over 1,000 names? This does not make me a happy camper, quite the opposite. The resale value of domain names in general and .mobi in particular has caused me to go an alternate route to domaining, and redirecting my energies to other sectors of mobile web.

    I think all the fire sales on this forum and others have told us what the market thinks about the majority of our investments in the short term. I believe it was mjnels who predicted this low value period months before it happened. It always bothered me that he was selling low on forums, and now I see that I would have done well to follow his example of proper valuation even as the premiums were breaking records last year. I also believe the naysayers, especially at the top levels, purposely trash talked the tld to other domainers to get us to this point.

    Mtld has voted with its feet to make this a developers tld by ignoring social media and focusing on business to business, and by focusing their energies on creating excellent developer tools. What I haven't seen them do is create a monetization plan for undeveloped names. And why should they? Parked pages are internet clutter, and all of us who have undeveloped names are guilty of contributing to the clutter, even if we have intentions of developing but haven't done so yet. So, I think .mobi names are incredibly viable for businesses but not as a vanilla shell.
    Last edited by coast; 12-11-2008 at 08:53 AM.
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  12. #42
    Senior Member GijsZePa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coast View Post
    Tim, I know you've made some great sites and I apologize for leaving your name off that list.
    <signature police forced me to remove my image that was too large and had nothing to do with a mobi site >


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  13. #43
    MobiEnthusiast coast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GijsZePa View Post

    Oh, Martin... if only I spoke Dutch....

    Well all right then, do you want me to go delete the list, or should I just cut and paste our member list here?
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  14. #44
    Senior Member GijsZePa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coast View Post
    Oh, Martin... if only I spoke Dutch....

    Well all right then, do you want me to go delete the list, or should I just cut and paste our member list here?
    hehe...just joking..

    Getting used of being ignored because my language is not common (check my post count)

    Martin
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  15. #45
    MobiEnthusiast coast's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, did someone just say something?
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  16. #46
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    It's **** out there..... period!

    It has nothing to do with domain names, domainers or developers... it's part of the ebb & flow of the markets.. the problem has been here before & will visit us again after this one has been forgotten about..

    Real Estate in the trendiest parts of London Town which sold at £3 million in 2006 may well now be selling at £2.5 million now but it's been forgotten by most that in the 1960's & part of the 1970's many entire streets of these 'trendy hot spots' were derelict and being demolished left right & centre because no-one but no-one wanted them.. every other house was either empty or a squat... those same house sold in that period for between £2,000 and £15,000 depending on condition etc.. they are now £1.8million to £5 million without exception..

    Just because something isn't selling 'today' doesn't mean there is no use for it.. nor does it dictate the demand that may exist tomorrow..

    Obviously most people thought the London property market was dead in that time... that's why they packed up & left them to rot.. a bit like many domainers feel today I dare say.. but if you have quality in your portfolio, you'd be a fool to throw it away just because no-one wants them 'today'.

    Just my view... given the current climate... if the world was otherwise rosy I'd say that we could be in trouble but as things stand today and looking at the growth of the mobile net & looking at how smartphones are getting a good market share.

    (Over 7" - 10" plus notebooks for example - which could threaten dotmobi).....

    Dotmobi ISN'T dotbiz for example.. It IS a relevant extension...

    Re; development... of course development adds value... it would be pretty dumb if it didn't wouldn't it... it takes 5 seconds to register / buy a name & maybe 5 days to develop it followed by 5 months to build traffic etc..... (obviously very approx figures)

    If a $5 name is developed it may be worth $50 or $500 or $5,000.... hit the jackpot - maybe $50,000 - $5,000,000

    If a $1,000,000 name is developed it may be worth $1,000,000 to $300,000,000 (look at Business.com)

    The development adds value to the underlying value of the name... that ratio depends on the name.... 10years ago google.com or facebook.com etc.. wouldn't have made more than $100 whereas quality generics were worth far more!

    Nothing much has changed except google & facebook have been developed and the development now accounts for 99.9% of the domain names value...

    Quality generics account for a greater ratio of the 'developed' sites value because they stand up on their own as investments... brandables don't.. so develop your brandables & tuck away your generics in this market... would that make most sense?

    Even the best will in the world doesn't prevent developers sitting on names for a few years while they work through their projects.. albeit on a smaller scale than pure-play domainers.. but the analogy carries across for land & property and anything else for that matter.. even labor! - workers in Bangladesh making clothes for Primark get 7p (10 - 11cents) per hour... if it wasn't for the middle men we could pay them 50x more... but the registrars wouldn't operate the same way if it weren't for pure-play domainers funding their operation.. just the same way that if Primark didn't exist there is no way we would be trading with those Bangladeshi factory workers.. it's a very imperfect system but step back & you see an ecosystem that wouldn't survive without all its components - as ugly as they may seem at times..

  17. #47
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    I wonder why the Mtld guys who are members of this forum never bother to give any input here of whatever sort especially when a debate like this is taking place.
    I myself only have the 9 names you see in my signature. I have been without a job for the last 3 months and now live of social security. I have sent off 36 job applications so far and was invited to only 2 interviews. They did not lead to a job. From the majority of potential employers I hear nothing at all, not even a thank you for the interest shown. Unemployment is growing here in Holland as well and people are being laid off on a daily basis. Not a good time for finding a job especially when you are 55 and most consider you to old and expensive. Every day more unemployed people flood onto the market competing for the slinking amount of jobs available.
    Companies are firing not hiring.
    Back to those 9 names i have. Having 9 good .mobi's all in one niche is one small expense that I wont give up. I don't plan on selling them as I believe in .mobi
    Not now but in a few years I believe .mobi will blossom. I also believe music on cellphones will become very big. I hope to then be in a situation where I can develop those 9 .mobi's or find someone who is enthusiastic, has experience with developing very good and appealing .mobi sites and wants to do some partnership deal.
    Last edited by Binaryman; 12-11-2008 at 10:33 AM.

  18. #48
    Senior Member noonoo1's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear your news Fred, I hope oppertunity comes knocking on your door soon.
    Best of luck.

  19. #49
    Senior Member GijsZePa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binaryman View Post
    Not now but in a few years I believe .mobi will blossom. I also believe music on cellphones will become very big. I hope to then be in a situation where I can develop those 9 .mobi's or find someone who is enthusiastic, has experience with developing very good and appealing .mobi sites and wants to do some partnership deal.
    You have some superb names Fred. Sorry to hear about your personal situation.

    Good luck !

    Martin
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  20. #50
    Senior Member developmy.mobi's Avatar
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    I started when I was very young. I knew damn well that my familys farm was going under, no way I wanted to inherit 1/2 million $ in debt. Programming is my anti-farm. Not saying I don't like farming, as its one of my hobbies, but when you farm for a living, you don't make much.

    Point is, The doctor handed me a keyboard upon birth.

    Quote Originally Posted by GijsZePa View Post
    WTF ? Did you start from your birth ?

    Martin

  21. #51
    Senior Member Gerry's Avatar
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    I will not give up or quit. It is simply not my nature.

    Each and every time I reg a name all I think is "Man, what a cool site that will make".

    When I buy a name, as mentioned I look at age, history and WayBack to see what sites it used to be.

    I will buy purely based on record. I will buy purely based on quality of the name. I will buy because it is primo generic in a language.

    But I also buy with the total realization that "Hey, I might get stuck with this. Is there something I can do with it?"

    And I love creating my own networks within a network. I was regging and buying particular author or book titles. I was creating a site for each. Then I realized that if I followed through with that dream, it could be an expensive project getting individual names.

    This is where you have to get creative. I kept the ones I had made and housed them all under the name MobiClassics.mobi. Now I do not have to get each individual name but instead make a new icon or button for each title. The ones I have made link to each other and back again to MobiClassics. I also regged the .com as a launching mechanism. And I have turned down offers to buy MobiClassics.com. So someone else have books for mobile format on the brain.

    No matter what, some will only emphasis the flip side of domaining, some developing, some both.

    There was recently a thread started at DNF about networking sites together. Just like here. Out of thousands of members, only 15 members participated in the thread. And like here, that pep rally quickly died.

    Sorry, but I don't know how many times on this forum and others I have read we (as a group) need to to this and that and band together. If I was waiting on that, my total developed sites would amount to zero.

    So I am for the developing side, selling if the opportunity (or need arises) and updating my portfolio which means taking out the trash and getting better quality.

    I just had SteelCity.mobi and HotWings.mobi added to my GD account and look forward to developing Finger Lickin Good sites.

  22. #52
    Founding Member Scandiman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by newdomainer View Post
    Real Estate in the trendiest parts of London Town which sold at £3 million in 2006 may well now be selling at £2.5 million ...
    We're down about 50% here in Sacramento so your situation sounds nice

    But Sacramento is essentially the same place to live with decent quality of life and an easy drive to world class destinations like Lake Tahoe, San Francisco, Yosemite and Napa.

    Prices always fluctuate and yes many people have been hurt in the downturn who bought when it was too high and needed to sell when the prices are now low, that's to be expected. But the core value of a location (or a TLD) is not in its pricing but in what it offers you in terms of quality of life. Sacramento's real estate market will recover because of its core value, and so will .mobi's aftermarket, provided .mobi continues to be a quality extension for mobile web. We've got a long way to go but we've come a long way also. As a mobi enthusiast who continues to buy I welcome todays low prices, I doubt they will be here for too much longer.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scandiman View Post
    We're down about 50% here in Sacramento so your situation sounds nice

    But Sacramento is essentially the same place to live with decent quality of life and an easy drive to world class destinations like Lake Tahoe, San Francisco, Yosemite and Napa.

    Prices always fluctuate and yes many people have been hurt in the downturn who bought when it was too high and needed to sell when the prices are now low, that's to be expected. But the core value of a location (or a TLD) is not in its pricing but in what it offers you in terms of quality of life. Sacramento's real estate market will recover because of its core value, and so will .mobi's aftermarket, provided .mobi continues to be a quality extension for mobile web. We've got a long way to go but we've come a long way also. As a mobi enthusiast who continues to buy I welcome todays low prices, I doubt they will be here for too much longer.

    I didn't say I lived in a trendy location did I? ;-)

    Prices have fallen close to 50% in some areas... not the asking prices (people are still blind to the reality) but prices achieved at auctions etc.. are showing prices of less than 50% of original sales prices on new-builds from 2006 - 2007 (quite shocking really!)

    As for dotmobi prices... definitely a buying time... if they vanish without trace we just dust ourselves down & get on with it.. but there's a good chance we'll look back & wonder what on earth happened & why didn't we hoover up even more while we had the chance!

  24. #54
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    First, best of luck finding work Fred. I've been there more than once myself and it gets frustrating. Hang in there bud.

    I think people have covered why the Mobi market is flat pretty thoroughly. Here are some things that keep me optimistic (Long term):

    1. Instant Mobilizer program: With the launch of this program millions of small businesses will have access to tools to quickly and economically produce mobile content. If this program is successful MOBI recognition could skyrocket.

    2. MTLD's one and two char domain release through an RFP process. This could bring many large companies to take an interest in Mobi. They are well positioned to win an RFP request and a prize like one and two character domains makes the prospects of some awesome competition very likely.

    3. The premium name auction and development requirements. Although there have been problems with the allocation process and the policing of it's policies, MTLD has helped spur development of it's top domains. The mobile market is still in it's infancy and many tools including reasonably priced payment gateways are lacking, but development is still going forward. Top names like Games.mobi, Music.mobi and others have gone to people serious about development and as the sites and others come online Mobi awareness and it's functionality will be seen and hopefully appreciated.


    4. The opening of the "white spaces" to unlicensed use for wifi. This will drastically alter the landscape of the internet and access as we know it over the next few years. I don't have a solid grasp on what effects this will have as of yet but I just feel this is going to be a big development for Mobi and mobile internet. My hopes are that mobile internet access will increase dramatically and the cost to access will drop as well.

    5. Quotes like this one from Yahoo's mobile marketing expert Michael Bayle even if it's not directed to their Mobi:

    As with the web, content and user experience are key. Mobile sites need to do much more than just repurpose PC content. Voting, trivia and other engagement keep the consumer continuously returning to ‘snack’ on mobile content. While it will always have a small form factor, mobile still addresses the need all humans have to follow their passions. As such, any content vertical should be able to establish itself in mobile. Our mobile search engine Yahoo! oneSearch receives increasingly diverse search queries for everything from ant farming to zoo keeping.
    I would encourage those that are frustrated to look long term and look at the opportunities surrounding Mobi and the mobile internet. I am not just looking at buying, selling, and developing Mobi domains but trying to figure out how to be a part of the emerging mobile internet. A Mobi name and development are part of this but the main thing is how can I produce a competitive product that will earn me a living based on the mobile net.

    Wishing everyone here at Mobility a prosperous and happy 2009,

    C.T. Kirkpatrick

  25. #55
    Senior Member GijsZePa's Avatar
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    I'm still a strongly believer in .mobi. Although the market is falling now...it was to be expected. Look at the droplist. Most names are garbage...everybody wanted to earn some money and regged very poor names.

    .mobi will recover. Sites are popping up on hourly bases and the quality is getting higher and higher..

    It's like the stockmarket. Everybody is dumping his domains...and the smart people are buying


    Martin
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  26. #56
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Rep+, C.T. That is precisely what I needed. Thank you for your thoughtful post.
    Quote Originally Posted by think View Post
    First, best of luck finding work Fred. I've been there more than once myself and it gets frustrating. Hang in there bud.

    I think people have covered why the Mobi market is flat pretty thoroughly. Here are some things that keep me optimistic (Long term):

    1. Instant Mobilizer program: With the launch of this program millions of small businesses will have access to tools to quickly and economically produce mobile content. If this program is successful MOBI recognition could skyrocket.

    2. MTLD's one and two char domain release through an RFP process. This could bring many large companies to take an interest in Mobi. They are well positioned to win an RFP request and a prize like one and two character domains makes the prospects of some awesome competition very likely.

    3. The premium name auction and development requirements. Although there have been problems with the allocation process and the policing of it's policies, MTLD has helped spur development of it's top domains. The mobile market is still in it's infancy and many tools including reasonably priced payment gateways are lacking, but development is still going forward. Top names like Games.mobi, Music.mobi and others have gone to people serious about development and as the sites and others come online Mobi awareness and it's functionality will be seen and hopefully appreciated.


    4. The opening of the "white spaces" to unlicensed use for wifi. This will drastically alter the landscape of the internet and access as we know it over the next few years. I don't have a solid grasp on what effects this will have as of yet but I just feel this is going to be a big development for Mobi and mobile internet. My hopes are that mobile internet access will increase dramatically and the cost to access will drop as well.

    5. Quotes like this one from Yahoo's mobile marketing expert Michael Bayle even if it's not directed to their Mobi:

    I would encourage those that are frustrated to look long term and look at the opportunities surrounding Mobi and the mobile internet. I am not just looking at buying, selling, and developing Mobi domains but trying to figure out how to be a part of the emerging mobile internet. A Mobi name and development are part of this but the main thing is how can I produce a competitive product that will earn me a living based on the mobile net.

    Wishing everyone here at Mobility a prosperous and happy 2009,

    C.T. Kirkpatrick


  27. #57
    Senior Member DomainTalker's Avatar
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    Very well said, CT...


    Tim, I believe what we're seeing is that the downturn in the general economy has just amplified what would have happened with .mobi - for a period - anyway...


    Whenever you have a major launch of a new 'product' - backed by massively credible global players to give it credibility - and, the 'product' has a logical rationale & fit with an undisputed gigantic global New Wave (eg mobile internet)...you're going to get a speculative 'bubble', in the early phases - ie players that invest to speculate on the predictable upside.

    Inevitably, this speculative energy wanes when the early peaks have been reached - and, when this new 'product' doesn't create billionaires overnight. Things settle down, players take their early profit, prices settle back.

    The implosion of global economies - coming at a critical time for .mobi - and the development rate of the mobile internet (ie before .mobi & the mobile web has properly taken root in everyday life) - has hugely amplified the normal correction for this particular new 'product'. New, unproven, stuff is always dumped first, and hardest, and by more people, in times like this....And, .mobi prices have taken a hammering.

    So, it looks really frightening for .mobi investors, at present.


    Realistically, .mobi was always going to be a longer-term play, imo. Not really a domainer play (except in the very short term (I mean, the first year, or so)). If we didn't buy & flip within this timeframe, then we're either going to cut our losses, and get out - Or, we're in for the long haul.


    CT has offered some good reasons for optimism, over time, for .mobi.


    I'd add the following:


    (i) If we believe the mobile internet is going to become global, ubiquitous, & cheap, for most, then we can build businesses-for-mobile, with our .mobi's.

    The advantage here is that many of us have great quality .mobi names - both generic & brandable - because they were (and now, again, are) available (whereas, they're not available in .com).

    If we build businesses for the mobile internet with these names, there's every chance we can do well financially in this big, new, emerging, mobile internet....No reason why .mobi won't be used when everyone is online all the time.

    If we build businesses - get traffic - then, we either make money from these businesses - Or, sell them profitably, eventually, to bigger players on the market niches we enter.


    (ii) When there are success .mobi stories of good businesses - and, when there are a few big, reported & verified, sales of these businesses - then, the domainer aftermarket will come alive again - fast - imo.

    This will allow us to progressively take good profits from good .mobi names we may have, that we have not built into businesses.


    The general economic conditions have set it all back - but, not killed it, imo. We just need to try to hang in there - longer - and go on building the dream.


    Tim, I sincerely believe that the foundations for some seriously large new fortunes are being laid - right now - in the .mobi space.....Some of these people are probably here, now, amongst our friends & colleagues at Mobility.

    .
    Last edited by DomainTalker; 12-12-2008 at 09:28 AM.

  28. #58
    MobiEnthusiast coast's Avatar
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    ...

    That said, I do believe in the future of .mobi, more than ever before, and am putting my energy into the ones I am keeping, in blogging, and in spreading the word via social media and another project in the works that should benefit our members.

    Keep the faith. Rep+ CT and DT for your wise words.
    Last edited by coast; 12-12-2008 at 03:02 PM.
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  29. #59
    Senior Member
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    Just scoured the drop-lists at TDNAM & picked up 38 mobis... out of about 3,000 I looked at (I got cross-eyed after that).... I short-listed about 70 but whittled them down..

    The ones I got range from "propertytolet" - "oceancruises" & "disposals" to "garnish" & "gargle"

    The ones I let go (if anyone wants them) included;

    isolate,
    fuming,
    forged,
    forges,
    fussy,
    forsake,
    shrug,
    clasp,
    huffy,
    discountboats,
    discountships,
    orally,
    napkin,
    nudemovie
    infatuation

    Many of which are as good as any I regged in 2007

  30. #60
    Mobility Regular ChineseDomain's Avatar
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    it may not be worthy digging gold in tdnam, since the current list‘s register time is after 2006.11.01. suggest finding gold in the current drop list, and the are many registered in 2006.9.26. i found that most of the domain with value are registered in 2006.09.

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